The Gerry Brown Pages
INTERACTIVE INTERVIEW 2
DON
CRAGGS OF ASIANBUS & BRITBUS (12th December 2003)
Gerry wrote: "Don Craggs of Asianbus kindly agreed to take part in an interactive interview for diecast buses interactive; here are Don's answers to your questions. I would like to thank him for agreeing to face your questions in an Interactive Interview; and thanks also to all of you who sent in questions to be put to the man in our hot seat, Don Craggs!"
PRICING & DISTRIBUTION
How do you plan to respond in the
UK to the recently announced retail price reductions from Creative
Master Northcord? Britbus models now seem to be seriously
disadvantaged from the collector’s viewpoint. The recent informal
poll on the dbi pages suggested concern about your pricing policy
before this announcement was made. Do you see a possible conflict of
interest in having the same sole distributor in the UK as one of
your major competitors?
Jim Lewis,
Manchester
Hi Jim, the query asks how Asianbus plans to respond to the price reductions
and same agent in the
UK as other manufacturers.
The simple answer is that the Britbus models are not aimed at the
same market for its models as has been suggested. John Ayrey
Diecasts Ltd., have been agents for all the famous manufacturers and
indeed have sold both Corgi OOC and EFE for many years. They have
also been selling all the non UK items as produced by CMNL long
before Britbus/Asianbus appointed John Ayreys as their UK agent.
Britbus does not consider Corgi, EFE or CMNL to be a competitor
except in the sense that they are also based on buses.
The Britbus models are aimed at collectors who enjoy certain classic
Marques or body styles. The Britbus aim is to place as many liveries
on a given model vehicle but at the same time to make crucial mould
& other changes for each model such that each issue is in fact a
unique and near-correct rendition of the real vehicle it represents.
Within the engineering and size limitations imposed inherently of
course.
As there are continual mould changes being carried out on the
Britbus mould sets the luxury of a “one time payment then reap the
profits” cannot exist for AsianbuS or its associated businesses.
Each change, no matter how small, costs money and, of course, time
and both these factors combined add considerably and continually to
overall operational costs that make the end products more expensive
when compared to any other manufacturers.
It’s like in the Hong Kong
market: a certain toy manufacturer has done a very passable diecast
copy in 1/76th scale of the two more recent and famous body styles.
The interiors are pure toy level based on vacuum formed plastic.
They have a pull back motor and are priced at $40.00 HKD each - plus
or minus -when compared with the near $300.00 HKD asked for proper
models; they are magnificent value for money and at the time of
their introduction the sceptics foresaw the final death of the
proper die-cast scale model bus as such. Both ranges of models are
still readily available and the outcome was basically a nil effect
on each others sales and markets, but a few new collectors used the
toy versions as a stepping stone to enter and enjoy the hobby. Much
the same way that I, and I am sure thousands of others, collected
the original Dinky Toys double & single deck models and graduated
via white metal kits, then over a period of time the manufacturers
have started to produce to much higher levels in all respects.
There are indeed retailers who are selling the Britbus range at much
lower prices - the RRP is meant only as a guide for the retailers
and those that are selling at a lower price are reaping the benefits
this brings commercially with higher sales volume and quicker
turnover. Like all die-casts it pays to shop around, but on the
other hand there is the thought that by supporting your local dealer
you reap the many overall benefits that mail order cannot guarantee.
It is, after all, always the choice of the individual concerned.
NEW PACKAGING
What do you believe to be the advantages of your new packaging given
the lack of visibility of the model inside?
Tony Price
Hello Tony, the new packaging has been developed with a view to long term total
control and viability plus of course less damage to the end product.
Those of you that have Britbus and Asianbus models in the earlier
cardboard packaging will know that despite all our efforts the
packaging was not up to expectations. A great deal of time and
effort was wasted in trying to cure the inherent shortcomings, but
nearly all were dependent on factors outside our direct control;
printers supplying lower grade card, spelling errors and
manufacturing and supply problems that arose by having to totally
rely on outside suppliers and being forced to accept substandard
deliveries or lose massive amounts of allocated production time
whilst the correct ordered items were redone - this could mean
horrific delays. It must be borne in mind that the manufacturers are
not solely producing for one manufacturer but many and varied
products, and the production scheduling “slot” is crucial - if this
time slot is lost because any part of the total requirements to
complete the final product is unavailable (such as waiting for a new
order of cartons from a supplier - or even something as simple as a
label) then it may be months before production for that item can be
“re slotted”.
The clear lid box was of course looked at – even the current new
packaging was tried using clear plastic but the shape of the package
distorted the visual effect and was not worthwhile. Britbus is very
aware that some folk do like to keep their models in clear packaging
but years of experience has shown us that the clear plastic is very
brittle and susceptible to cracking. Certainly it is prone to a high
percentage of transportation damage. Cost wise to make a clear mould
is very expensive as it takes weeks of hand polishing the mould
surfaces to get the clear finish needed - the mould-set also
requires constant maintenance which further adds to the costs.
What Britbus has developed is a versatile transportation unit that
can be used to securely store the model or - and many may not be
aware of this - the lid can be easily, gently, unclipped and the
model can be displayed although only a side-on nearside view can be
seen.
From a commercial point of view the packaging has added very little
to the cost of the model as it is a long term amortisation project.
The ends of the box are clearly marked, pictorially on one end and
literally on the other so there is little chance of a wrong model
being placed in its box. The box has been designed to stack readily
and safely and to take up minimal space.
Some may have noticed that the base of the box has a mottled finish.
In later model issues this area will be painted as it is meant to
simulate a road surface upon which the model can be placed for
either photography or display, at the same time reducing the need
for cupboard space in which to store the boxes themselves. The
Collector has, as always, been thought of wherever possible!
To some people it requires a very little extra time to open and
reveal the model and to others it may present a challenge.
Some collectors have remarked on the Limited Edition Certificate;
this is now virtually fool-proof and has eliminated any possibility
of reject or other models appearing in the market place. This has
historically been a big problem with nearly all manufacturers here
in the Far East, whereby; sometimes vast numbers, poor quality or
reject models were sold locally on the black market. The Bulldog is
a real dog and is the Mascot for Asianbus products - he lives in the
Factory in China.
As the new certificate is printed by tampo onto the plastic it is
more difficult to change or interfere with the original data.
Some collectors have been cynical and unhappy with the box or the
certificate and I can understand their misgivings; however in the
long run it will turn out to be a positive step for the models care
and safety.
CUSTOMER SURVEY
With regard to your recent customer survey, and the quote in the dbi
Newsletter of 7th November: what were the “several points from the
survey” that “have been taken on board”, and when will “the changes
will be implemented where practicable”?
Mark Jordan, Trowbridge
Dear Mark, the survey Britbus carried out at “Showbus”, and at other places we
visited, revealed factors that were not immediately apparent to us.
Each suggestion, even the “Hate it” brigade, was looked at by a team
of enthusiasts and where the remark was valid or achievable in an
engineering sense it was all recorded. It’s a case of “watch this
space”. As mentioned above every model released by Britbus will, and
does, incorporate change to ensure the uniqueness and continual
improvements of the models. The Britbus policy is not to order a
mould set and expect the customer to tolerate a plethora of
different - or indifferent - liveries ad infinitum until the mould
set has reached the end of its commercial use. The Britbus
mould-sets are modified after each model has been cast and
improvements made within the expected production timeframes as
planned. Not all improvements or modifications can be done at one
time because of the production downtime timings.
CASTING CHANGES
What changes to the Metropolitan casting did you make after
producing the Model Bus Federation model? How much flexibility do
you have as a manufacturer to respond to such ‘criticisms’ in this
manner?
Steve Dawson
Hi Steve; the Model Bus Federation Model.- N 62-001
Asianbus was already developing the Scania Metropolitan from the
early days. The
Hong Kong
models were the first to be directly developed but already the
market in Hong Kong for Hong Kong models was diminishing
dramatically. The economic situation of Hong Kong meant that many of
the collectors were now unemployed and a model die-cast bus could no
longer be a viable acquisition for the vast majority of collectors.
The investor segment also started dumping their hoarded models and
the downward spiral continued. Previously overpriced rarer models
were being sold off for whatever price could be found.
In this atmosphere it was touch and go whether to continue or let it
all fade away into the distance: very tempting. Unexpectedly I was
contacted by the London Area of the MBF‘s executive that they were
interested in having the Scania Metropolitan done as a model.
Costings and timeframes were discussed - everything needed to be
done by the annual Whitton event of the MBF due in March the
following year.
Once the agreement was reached development was undertaken but the
timeframe was extremely tight - as a result the model that evolved
was the best that could be done in the time and within the severe
constraints of the manufacturer. The fact that the model emerged at
all I personally consider a genuine Miracle.
Fortunately a far superior manufacturer was aware of our situation
and agreed to take our products on board. The worst faults were
remedied and after a great deal of very costly and hard work the
first model was released to the market. I am unaware of any
criticisms in the changes: if there has been it has not been passed
on to me.
ABC TOOLING #1
Are there any plans by Britbus to salvage any remains from
ABC models including the casting of the Volvo Ailsa?
Niall Dorsett - New Mills Derbyshire (Foxfordnewf)
ABC TOOLING #2
Will Britbus be resurrecting the old
ABC MCW Metrorider or will Britbus be producing a new version of
this, interest in this bus on the web has been/is phenomenal....
Marc, Birmingham, UK
Gentlemen, there is absolutely no connection between Asianbus and the
ABC models - Asianbus was originally registered as a company in Hong
Kong three months prior to the ABC
Models company and has been in existence continually since that time
- although not manufacturing models for all that time. It was
originally formed as a backup, as what did eventually happen with
ABC was an expected outcome - knowing the historical ways of Hong
Kong business partnerships.
The large amount of money still owed to ABC Models by one person in
particular in the UK (in excess of thirty thousand pounds) and the
highly unlikely repayment of that and other debts means that there
is very little likelihood of the matters of ABC Models ever being
resolved.
The ABC
mould-sets will by now have deteriorated to the point where they are
no longer of any use, and would require extensive and very expensive
refurbishment before they could be used for production! - if at all!
THE FUTURE
Now that the "goldrush" days of Hong Kong model buses are over (big
manufacturers no longer interested; the manufacturers who remain
produce in much smaller quantities). Aren't you worried that the
market will not be able to sustain independent diecast manufacturers
for very much longer, without further cost cutting (like a wholesale
switch to resin/plastic instead of diecast)?
Simon Ayres, Luton
Dear Simon, the so called “Goldrush” days of Hong Kong bus models is, as you
say, well past. Britbus is indeed very lucky as nearly all the
factories in China are still very much hoping that the past will
return - and no factory will accept orders for less than a 5000
model production run. In the current atmosphere in the die-cast
trade this is totally impracticable and there are the odd
manufacturers who are willing to do a 2000 piece production run, but
these factories have too many customers and it is difficult to get
them to accept your orders. People like CMNL who are actually the
production factory owners - or the CM part of the partnership - can
easily slot production runs in to their programme, and as it is
their own product they can afford to put a lot more effort into the
end product and of course their base costs are extremely low
comparatively. This factory was and is still used by the major
die-cast names, especially for model buses. All factories have a
penalty for production runs under the magic 2000 models- a 500 run
can attract a 70% to 100% additional cost per model……..50 % for a
1000 production run……
I very much doubt that resin/plastic will ever be a threat to a good
die-cast model. The die-cast business has historically been cyclical
and there are long time famous names dropping by the wayside all the
time. The quality of the resin models has deteriorated notably since
the excellent earlier ones and their fragility makes transportation
a nightmare. They have a place in collecting but I don’t see them
replacing die-casts. Time may also be a factor - resins and plastics
become brittle with time and could self destruct over a lengthy
period. Resin models are in the same category as the White Metal
kits n bits. They satisfy a definitive segment of the hobby.
Plastic or (ABS)
has always been there in the background but those that have tried
have not found the market to be sustainable for the infrastructure
costs involved. I always bemoan the demise of the old Rosebud
Kitmaster range of plastic kits - even though the moulds are still
in existence the present owners have reintroduced very few limited
numbers of models from the original extensive range.
Whether it is complacency or just that the core collectors are all
getting older and the younger generations now have far more exciting
things to do than push toy cars and trucks around the carpet it’s
hard to say. Here in Hong Kong there are many very young enthusiasts
joining in the several bus fan groups and actively bus spotting. I
have lived in Singapore and Jakarta for some time and even though it
was a fascinating place for buses in the past there is not, and
never has been, the same following as is here in Hong Kong.. Look
around at the swapmeets and rallies - how many youngsters /
teenagers do you see?
PERMISSIONS, TIMESCALE & NUMBERS
A series of questions from Tony Gallimore of Leicester:
1. Is it as difficult as it appears to obtain consent to use certain
liveries/logos?
2. How long, on average, does it take from the decision to
manufacture a model, to the first production?
3. How many, on average, castings must be produced to be viable?
4. How many castings can be produced before the dies wear out?
5. What is the smallest production run of a particular livery, to be
viable, without charging a premium price?
6. Why do mistakes, such as the Metropolitan windscreen and the GUY
radiator get into production?
Dear Tony
1 Licences/permissions follow no set rules - painful time-wise, yes.
In excess of twelve months is known. Expensive, yes. One body
builder demands ten thousand pounds Sterling licence fee - you have
to make an awful lot of models to cover this and it makes models
using their bodies unviable. Simple: yes, some companies realise the
potential publicity and nostalgia a model of one of their buses or
their predecessors can generate from the past.
Remotely, from a far distance like Britbus, this sector of the
business is terrifying - hefty phone bills and faxes and masses of
email time. But worth it in the end in most cases.
Networking helps a lot and dbi has indeed helped Britbus a great
deal. It is appreciated - never taken for granted.
2 Too many variables to put a hard figure on it - the Britbus MBF
model was exceptional considering the horror sections encountered!
It CAN be done in six months - even shorter if all the latest high
tech computer aided mould cutting is used. This is very expensive
and difficult to find, and even harder to find the manufacturer with
the staff that has the competence and skills needed: generally up to
two years maximum if there are problems. Average six months to a
year.
3 Per production run it needs to sell 2000 pieces to be truly
viable, with four different releases of 2000 each per month - less
than this then it has to be a very small operation with very few
staff and on costs
4 As I've stated earlier on there are many factors - but if, like
Britbus, there is continual modification then the life of the mould
reduces dramatically- if untouched the mould could do 150,000 or so,
but like Britbus less than 50,000 pieces
5 As I have stated earlier on in most cases 2000 pieces is the
lowest figure most factories will accept.
6 Everything is based on the information either researched or
provided - the perfect model will never be made. You mention the
windscreen - the model was built according to official L/T plans
and, as is common, the actual vehicle is NOT the same as the
drawings. These drawings have had a later change that has not
appeared in the earlier plans. As far as I know the Guy radiator is
a good representation…- are you referring to the exaggerated slant
of the radiator? This is a technical problem and is being re-done
for future models. Mistakes are a fact of life in this industry…… A
lot of mistakes come about because the language is not English in
any factory. Films are made to produce the photo-etched tampo plates
- spelling mistakes creep in and even if you pick them up the wrong
film gets used and lo and behold the printing, even though
corrected, gets incorrectly done because the earlier incorrect plate
is used. I guess I am not too good at Chinese Hieroglyphics so I can
make a right royal mess of a Chinese language plate - how would you
feel??
As a case in point - the Leicester City (N6201X) model destination
was checked by over twenty different people in the UK before it came
back to me as correct - but it wasn’t, and when the model came out
there were two wrong letters! - and the pre production samples were
gone over with a fine tooth comb but the mistake still crept
through. The Manchester box has a spelling error as well - I
personally corrected the wrong spelling on the box and the new plate
was seen, tested and approved but STILL the wrong plate was used for
production - not discovered until already shipped off to the UK!
FRUSTRATING!!!
INNOVATIONS
How would you respond to those people who suggest that ‘poseable
wheels’ and ‘opening engine covers’ are flimsy distractions for the
serious collector and more appropriate to toys? What ‘innovations’
do you see in your crystal ball for the 1:76 model buses Britbus
produces in the future?
Peter Pearson, Walsall
Dear Peter,
innovations - you have no idea what the die-cast industry is like:
MI5/MI6/CIA all are amateurs when it comes to jealously guarded
secrets. This industry is absolutely riddled with ex-special agents
I’m sure - industrial espionage is the daily grind. So you ask me
about Innovations - even If I have any I can’t say as my
friendly???? competitors will steal them. It has happened to me
personally and I am sure will happen again! Sorry about that
The latest gimmickry involves things like radio control and lights,
and I can recall these being bandied around years ago. Now that the
cost is reducing, these things may become more common
The
ABC
Model was the first 1/76th model bus with opening engine bonnet and
more realistic chassis detailing - all except EFE have followed to
some degree, and it is said that the greatest compliment is to be
copied by others.
Corgi did the steering thing first with their coach models; I see a
lot of the members on the Dbi site make, and enjoy, a lot of
Dioramas and small to huge bus layouts - every model exhibition has
mini layouts and the like and these features give the modeller the
opportunity to pose vehicles with engine breakdowns and overall-clad
staff doing all sorts of maintenance work here and there. On a
diorama a turning bus at the Traffic light looks a bit weird with
the front wheels facing straight ahead, or it does to me.
It's all a matter of the persons individual concept and demeanour.
The Guy Arab IV has no opening bonnet - but those of you that have
succeeded in getting your Arab apart will see there is a good old
Gardner there where it should be -… talking of which; those who
tried to pull their model apart caused all those “the rear chassis
doesn’t sit right on my model” comments. The chassis and rear wheels
are not glued and are pop fitted, so as soon as you try to lever the
chassis off the rear axle will pop off – yes, if you're lucky, it
will pop back into place. NO I will not say how the model comes
apart - it does, but not by levering off the Chassis - believe me!
The features do add to the model cost but not by that much when they
are added at the time of original mould order.
FUTURE STRATEGY
Within the scope of the 1:76 scale there are a number of gaps in
model bus collectors’ cabinets - I think particularly of
bendi-buses, modern trams, service vehicles (non-bus based
especially) and very early motor buses. Do Britbus’s strategic plans
envisage the possible future production of such models, and, if so,
what might we look forward to?
John Johnson, Kettering
Dear John,
Britbus like all manufacturers does have models on the future short
list. No, Britbus would not include trams or other service vehicles.
The era of the future models could be any, and nothing is planned at
this time but dbi will surely be amongst the first to know.
YOU ASK DBI
Assuming that Britbus, like any manufacturer in any business, would
wish to have a healthy dialogue with the product’s end-user, what
questions would you like to ask us, as enthusiastic model bus
collectors?
Dave Rice, Manchester
Dear Dave -
ASK Dbi?
Definitely - I realise there are some extremely knowledgeable
collectors amongst the group and the value of their contributions is
of immense value to other members. And people like Britbus. Through
the stewardship of Gerry the massive sources of information
otherwise inaccessible to those that may have a use for information
can be tapped so that accuracy & quality can result in what will be
a fine model reproduction.
Why is it that out of a membership of 500 or so is it that there is
a hard core of about six members who continually banter amongst
themselves seemingly oblivious and intimidating to the majority of
members causing them to hold back from active participation. Some
members make cynical, spiteful and thus worthless remarks which are
never given credence or considered of any value and this is a pity
because if the problem is stated as a factual non-personal
aggressive criticism it will always evoke discussion and action
where possible. Every model ever made
HAS got faults somewhere - this is unavoidable!
HOW
ARE YOU DIFFERENT?
And finally, what is it that sets Britbus apart from other model bus
manufacturers?
Dave Ryder, London
Dear Dave, as I have pointed out in the answers, Britbus is trying, and will
continue to try, to strive for continual non stop improvement on all
our products. Give us time! Both my manufacturers and Britbus are
actively learning and seeking improvement and we need the positive
AND negative feedback to keep us well and truly on track - we will
always listen to criticism objectively. I know I could NEVER please
ALL of the people ALL
of the time, but a smile once in a while is enough to keep us
striving – Utopia I doubt will be at Shangri La but it’s very
rewarding to know some of the people are happy with what I am do. I
do think Britbus is unique in this endeavour.
I must express grateful thanks to Gerry and the members for the
opportunity to answer the queries, the doubts and the fears, and
hope my answers have given a small insight into how things sometimes
happen.
KEEP ON BUSSIN!
Best wishes to all.
DON CRAGGS